How many of these kids will stick for more than one year?

he pled guilty.

Doesn’t matter if we like it or not, SacSt is going to really benefit from these moves. You know how much money in free advertising SAC is getting from these moves? Really great for the university as a whole. Their success next year will have an impact on us, not sure how but it will. We need to figure out how these moves can benefit us.

I totally agree that we should explore how their potential 2025 success can be beneficial for our program. However, we're building something sustainable here, a real program with long-term goals. What they're doing seems more like assembling a one-time team in hopes of a big season. I genuinely wish them well, but the more I read, the more concerned I get for them. They definitely seem to be looking at 2025 through rose-colored glasses, and I’m not seeing much thought beyond that.

Shaqir’s stats are not very impressive, 6.7 points per game last year which is his high. 3.4 rebounds per game. He looks to me to be more of a name rather than an impact player.

Last night on 102.5 FM, the host or DJ went on for two minutes about Sac State sports. I was scanning for KBLX, don't typically listen to this station.

One of the consistent discussion points on this thread relates to Sac State "being successful / not being successful" next year with this approach. But what is "success" in this situation?

I'm curious what everyone thinks success in basketball next season actually looks like.

What kind of win-loss record qualifies as success?
Is the Causeway game a must-win?
Do the Hornets need to win the Big Sky regular season and/or tournament championship?
How deep do the Hornets need to go in the NCAA (assuming they're selected)?
Is playing in the WBIT or WNIT enough?
What does average attendance need to be?
Other?

Doesn’t matter if we like it or not, SacSt is going to really benefit from these moves. — Sailorgabe

They are? This is looking more and more like a house-of-cards situation. Both of these coaches will move on after 1 successful season- count on that. The players they are bringing in (and as a result, the players they are pushing out) are not helping to build a sustainable culture. Classic pump and dump situation.
They get to FBS, and then what, toil in mediocracy with problem players and revolving coaches every season?

There are no shortcuts when it comes to building a positive, sustainable, winning culture where players/coaches buy-in for the long haul and stay connected long after they are gone.

We don't need to do anything they way Sac is doing it, and we won't. Watching what they are doing is only reinforcing for our admin and alums that what is happening at Davis long-term is pretty great.

Great post! :up:

What does their current graduation rate look like for MBB and FB?

Look, UC Davis basketball was a nice community FCS school at one time. But times have changed and we are now D1. It is time to hold the basketball program to higher standards. This shouldn't be controversial. Coach Les is an average coach at best. He has been in charge since the first Obama administration and during that time is the program trending up? No. It's not. We have not finished higher than 3rd since 2018. That means there are two classes that have graduated Davis and never had championship team. You think that is building a solid program? That is not a solid program. That is being comfortable and ok with being average. And as an Aggie I'm not ok with this. We are strive to better at everything from academics to scholastics.

The Sacramento region is the fastest growing area in California. SacSt and UCD can both benefit from this population boom by becoming a place welcoming to local talent. In order to do this, you have create an atmosphere that caters to the GenZ population.

We have grown to comfortable in this town with the status quo. I don't know what it is, but I feel like we are stuck in 2011. With our move to the Mountain West we are not going to be playing Montana St or Portland St anymore...we are going to be playing New Mexico, UNLV, Stanford, etc. We have to make moves to build for the future if you want to have an excited campus who wants to support UCD basketball. What we are doing right now, isn't working, unless winning isn't important.

Same as football: Sac is very likely to surpass us in performance on the field/court (Not courtroom.) in the short-term by prioritizing flash and form. How this works is if they can generate enough revenue to do actual facilities upgrades to create a sustained recruiting and donor base. Have gone through the recruiting process recently with my kids, facilities are huge factors in decisions. Sac’s facilities suck compared to most FCS/mid-majors and it takes big money and time to address that.

I agree. If there is one thing I have learned in life its that those who sit back and hope things get better without being proactive never go anywhere. Imagine if SACST took our approach. Do you think they would be better off? Of course not. I have heard the name SACST on ESPN, FOXSports, and other sport cites in the past couple weeks way more than I've heard anything about UC Davis. That is called FREE Advertising and their moves are working. Ryder Lyons the #1 overall recruit in California and out of Folsom is taking a recruiting trip to SACST. That is wild.

Next year will be very interesting to see how SAC plays out.

That is a cheap shot. You think SACST offering Mikey Williams is somehow a bad thing? The kid made a mistake and paid the price. That doesn't mean his life is over now. He paid his penalty and looking for a 2nd chance. I hope he succeeds and turns his life around.

That being said, your telling me you wouldn't want Shaq, and other NBA players on campus hyping up the AGGIES? Of course you would.

Again, I don't have a problem with what Sac is doing. Building and striving to improve is fantastic and Davis should continue to do the same always. Its how they are doing it is what I don't like.

DrMike is not saying the kid doesn’t deserve a second chance. Nothing is stopping him from getting an education and improving himself. But building a team around felons and kids with disciplinary issues such as Sac is doing in their football program is not what many of us want to support.

This is silly. We are not a big time sports program. We are not building anything in men’s basketball. It’s an average program that is struggling in a lower conference. Once we move to the mountain west Coach Les will get exposed. We will be lucky to have a winning season as the competition gets better. You think we are building something? What is it? Because all I see is a bunch of people who have grown very comfortable in their positions. We can do better. If you want the student body to get behind men’s basketball we have to be better. There are a ton of kids who want to support davis sports but the AD has to expect more. Coach Les has been here since 2012. It’s time for new blood.

if you think being a below .500 coach is somehow “successful” we disagree on the meaning of success. The program needs a jolt of energy.

I agree with Gabe when it comes to needing to shake things up (whether that is coaching, recruiters, facility work) before going to the MW, but I do not think Sac State's strategy is a promise by any means of long term success. Its just too much betting in my opinion. Our basketball program has felt really stale as of late. That game on ESPN was so fun, but it seems like we have been pretty "mid" since that march madness run in 2017. Good kids, nice coaches, but I really think our current position a year out from joining the MW is worrying. A coach with a less than .500 winning percentage, mediocre season (yes 2 years ago we were a game from march madness, I understand that as an outlier), facilities needing to get renovations started, and not much of a team identity. Other than joining the new conference, I feel like football and basketball feel like they are totally different in the energy around them. We have had star players that have kept some energy, but in general everyone I have talked to is like "I loved Pepper..." not "I am loving Davis basketball"

I understand this perspective but also I think its a different convo when someone is loyal but also has a lifetime losing record and has not brought us back to march madness since 2017. Its no personal attack, but I don't see how the program will be rejuvenated without some movement? This is the longest tenured d1 basketball staff (including all assistants) if I am correct.

Lots of words to unpack there.

[The players are good. Other teams have good players too, ...]

Our good players are 6'2" and 6"4". Their good players are 6'2", 6'5", 6'8" and 6'10".

[Athletically there are more limits. Could another coach take the same players and turn them into a national powerhouse. No, because the players aren't THAT good.]

Who's our ace recruiter? Les recruits and plays guards.

[The best recruiter in the world couldn't convince a lot of the best players to come to Davis because they don't want to be in a place like Davis.]

False. I'm told Bobby Steinberg was terrific. Football gets recruits, so does Jen Gross. We don't need 'a lot', we need 2-3 key recruits. We're not Bako, we have a GREAT campus and town. Try recruiting at UOP or Eastern Washington. Key signings from bright SA who want a UC degree and a post career like Payne or Parenteau. Look at the success of UCSD.

[A different coach might help them get a slightly closer look at it, but not significantly. I would say if Les were doing a horrible job or mistreating the players that would be one thing.]

Momentum helps. You only need 2-3 key recruits, and role players. Start winning, getting 4-6,000 in the house, momentum builds. Football and women's basketball don't have the same turnover.

If either Sac coach succeeds, they bounce.

This is exactly the response I would expect in defense of the current coaches. "Its not their fault"...please. Yes, it is. It's been over 10 years. It is past time to get some new blood in the mens basketball program. There is nothing being done today that displays an earning of more years of mediocrity. The student body is not vested in the program. We are moving up in competition. It's time to get some some new blood. Our university deserves winning not a participation trophy. Look I get it, change is tough, but sitting back and being comfortable should not be an option for such a great school.

don’t be afraid of change.

None of that has anything to do with winning. That is the problem. I remember when we had the Grad, we had Murder Burger, we had a more lively downtown. All that is coming back. Winning basketball means not rewarding coaches who are below average.

I care about winning. I care about academic rankings. I care about being elite. UC Davis is one of the best universities in the nation. We should act like it.

This goes for any school in the UC system. No matter how anyone feels, athletics is never going to be a #1 priority in the UC system.

This doesn't make me any less of a fan, and it doesn't make me want the Athletics Department to work less hard to improve. There must be a winning standard in place.

In this context, I'm not sure replacing Jim Les immediately is the highest probability move for increased wins and program improvement.

I would love to see us add a ‘ GM’ to help with recruiting/transfers. I think Les outcoaches just about anyone in the BWC, and when we have talent and depth, we’re at the top of the conference. Remember, we were 3-4 away from a NCAA berth in 2024 with 2 really good players, and a solid supporting cast.

The whole point of athletics especially at the D1 level is to win. If we win we get more exposure to the university itself. Look at Gonzaga, Duke, etc. I'm surprised anyone would be ok with being below average in anything. Look, if you didn't want to compete at the D1 level, we should have stayed D2, but we are not D2, we are D1. We have to start winning so the athletic program can start generating money to pay for travel and other operating expenses in the future. This is the business of D1 sports.

Coach Les I'm sure is a great human being, but what has he won? Nothing. The team is not getting better it is getting worse. The student body is not interested enough to invest their time and money into watching this team. Fine keep him and this staff on for another year. Keep him for the next decade, guess what? UCD is going to win anything and apathy will continue to fester.

I give it a year, because I think SACST is going to have a really good year in football and basketball. And once those seats start selling out because people enjoy winning programs, you will see UCD have to make a move just to stay relevant.

It it ok to have high expectations of our coaches. It is ok to say "The results for the past 10 years were fine, but we expect better." If next year Coach Les somehow puts together a winning team that wins the conference ok...he bought some time. But if he finishes with another losing record or lower than 3rd in conference you have to replace him.

Unneeded and costly. Hire a top assistant who can recruit.

Height (length) is an important metric in basketball. Ham once developed a raw thin former soccer player who never played a year of HS hoops. The player was 6'10" and had modest success.



He has had one system for three decades. He has shown an inability to incorporate most big men into his system. My compadres say the MW will expose this flaw even more.

Steinburg coached here and I'm told he was a fabulous recruiter. We've had other coaches who were top recruiters.

[Football gets recruits, good recruits, and they win. However, they also play against basically minor league college football teams. Basketball doesn't play in a minor league classification-...]

Football plays in a tough FCS division which sends guys to The Show every year. Hoops plays a mid major schedule.

It stands, football and women's basketball recruit well, and have minimal player turnover.

Rocko has a marketing team that dropped the ball in our football playoff run. Three or four professionals couldn't give away 1,000 free playoff tickets. They should have given away 4,000.

I'm not calling for his head, but he's obviously not a guru with a roughly. 500 career record. Something needs to change.

seems like a similar cost ( unless you’re advocating replacing a current assistant) and they can concentrate on everything off the court.