DrMike is not saying the kid doesn’t deserve a second chance. Nothing is stopping him from getting an education and improving himself. But building a team around felons and kids with disciplinary issues such as Sac is doing in their football program is not what many of us want to support.

This is silly. We are not a big time sports program. We are not building anything in men’s basketball. It’s an average program that is struggling in a lower conference. Once we move to the mountain west Coach Les will get exposed. We will be lucky to have a winning season as the competition gets better. You think we are building something? What is it? Because all I see is a bunch of people who have grown very comfortable in their positions. We can do better. If you want the student body to get behind men’s basketball we have to be better. There are a ton of kids who want to support davis sports but the AD has to expect more. Coach Les has been here since 2012. It’s time for new blood.

if you think being a below .500 coach is somehow “successful” we disagree on the meaning of success. The program needs a jolt of energy.

I agree with Gabe when it comes to needing to shake things up (whether that is coaching, recruiters, facility work) before going to the MW, but I do not think Sac State's strategy is a promise by any means of long term success. Its just too much betting in my opinion. Our basketball program has felt really stale as of late. That game on ESPN was so fun, but it seems like we have been pretty "mid" since that march madness run in 2017. Good kids, nice coaches, but I really think our current position a year out from joining the MW is worrying. A coach with a less than .500 winning percentage, mediocre season (yes 2 years ago we were a game from march madness, I understand that as an outlier), facilities needing to get renovations started, and not much of a team identity. Other than joining the new conference, I feel like football and basketball feel like they are totally different in the energy around them. We have had star players that have kept some energy, but in general everyone I have talked to is like "I loved Pepper..." not "I am loving Davis basketball"

I am used to loyalty to those that have stuck with us. I am not used to constant turnover. If someone new has success here, they will more likely leave ala Sac State. Look, if we can become a Duke or Bama (of old) sure, let’s do it. But if we become a Umass or a Kent State then no.

I understand this perspective but also I think its a different convo when someone is loyal but also has a lifetime losing record and has not brought us back to march madness since 2017. Its no personal attack, but I don't see how the program will be rejuvenated without some movement? This is the longest tenured d1 basketball staff (including all assistants) if I am correct.

You folks do know that Les isn't solely responsible for player performance, right ? The players themselves bear a greater share of that responsibility. He can only instruct them what to do to prepare (practice), what to during the game + when to do it. The execution is purely in their court (pun intended).

If the coaches are recruiting the all-county everythings they claim to be recruiting then it's not that they are recruiting inferior players. The players are good. Other teams have good players too, and this isn't like the D-II days when they could just out-smart the majority of the big dummies playing for the other teams (except for Bakersfield)

I know that as alumni we think our school is great and can accomplish anything, especially because it's very affirming when there is success. However, I only believe UCD can do that academically. Athletically there are more limits. Could another coach take the same players and turn them into a national powerhouse. No, because the players aren't THAT good.

The best recruiter in the world couldn't convince a lot of the best players to come to Davis if they don't want to be in a place like Davis. You know, free-will and that stuff. UCD is not the be-all-end-all of existence some alumni think it is. You could hire Michael Jordan as the coach with Larry Bird as his assistant and they still wouldn't sign. Well, to be fair, some of them might not be familiar with his career considering it was ancient history before they were even born.

Knowing that there is a ceiling and accepting that it exists puts things into perspective. A different coach might help them get a slightly closer look at it, but not significantly. I would say if Les were doing a horrible job or mistreating the players that would be one thing. He isn't though, so let the man finish providing the services for which he's receiving contractually-obligated payments. When it's over you can hire a new coach. Honestly, some of you folks act like money is no object when it's somebody else's. Are you going to foot the bill for termination costs ? You might as well all be CA politicians.

And keeping up with Sac State should also not be a huge goal. They may have a little more potential upward mobility because they're less-encumbered by academic requirements, and they are in a more interesting place.. And if they succeed-great. If they produce something fantastic I may go see it sometime because I'm not obligated to be a cheerleader of everything UCD for life.

Lots of words to unpack there.

[The players are good. Other teams have good players too, ...]

Our good players are 6'2" and 6"4". Their good players are 6'2", 6'5", 6'8" and 6'10".

[Athletically there are more limits. Could another coach take the same players and turn them into a national powerhouse. No, because the players aren't THAT good.]

Who's our ace recruiter? Les recruits and plays guards.

[The best recruiter in the world couldn't convince a lot of the best players to come to Davis because they don't want to be in a place like Davis.]

False. I'm told Bobby Steinberg was terrific. Football gets recruits, so does Jen Gross. We don't need 'a lot', we need 2-3 key recruits. We're not Bako, we have a GREAT campus and town. Try recruiting at UOP or Eastern Washington. Key signings from bright SA who want a UC degree and a post career like Payne or Parenteau. Look at the success of UCSD.

[A different coach might help them get a slightly closer look at it, but not significantly. I would say if Les were doing a horrible job or mistreating the players that would be one thing.]

Momentum helps. You only need 2-3 key recruits, and role players. Start winning, getting 4-6,000 in the house, momentum builds. Football and women's basketball don't have the same turnover.

If either Sac coach succeeds, they bounce.

Our good players are 6'2" and 6"4". Their good players are 6'2", 6'5", 6'8" and 6'10".

So what ? Is it the stated mission of UCD to field an elite basketball team with a mix of only players that satisfies the peanut gallery of posters on a message board ? He gets quite a few wins for having such a disadvantaged short team. What would the excuse be if they had some additional tall players and didn't play significantly better ? I trust he is playing to his coaching strengths by prioritizing guards, and that is fine because he knows so much more about coaching basketball (and playing it too) than any of us. He is the expert. We are not.

False. I'm told Bobby Steinberg was terrific. Football gets recruits. We don't need 'a lot', we need 2-3 key recruits. We're not Bako, we have a GREAT campus and town. Try recruiting at UOP or Eastern Washington. Key signings from bright SA who want a UC degree and a post career like Payne or Parenteau. Look at the success of UCSD.

A lot of words to unpack here too. I'm assuming you are referring to Kent State coach Bobby Steinburg ? Kent is Kent and Davis is Davis. It's also in a different part of the country, not everyone aspires to be in CA. Maybe Kent State Is more attractive a destination for those who choose to go there, mass shootings (as opposed to stabbings)aside ? I didn't say Davis is unattractive to recruits because of its size and population, so a comparison to Kent is irrelevant. That UCSD is in La Jolla doesn't take away from the fact it's still a more attractive destination than Davis.

Football gets recruits, good recruits, and they win. However, they also play against basically minor league college football teams. Basketball doesn't play in a minor league classification-they can and do play anyone who will work out a sufficiently favorable contract with them, more frequently against teams that are a lot better than they are. If basketball only played 2 such teams a year they would definitely win a bit more. I sometimes read articles on mlbtraderumors.com where they talk about players having pitched or hit better in Triple-A than they have in their brief MLB careers to date. Well no sh!t, Sherlock !

Oh, and sometimes football doesn't win, like in the playoffs. What football does is irrelevant to basketball's performance.

Momentum helps. You only need 2-3 key recruits, and role players. Start winning, getting 4-6,000 in the house, momentum builds. Football and women's basketball don't have the same turnover.

They get key recruits and role players, and so do the teams that beat UCD.

Are you planning to summon these extra fans via a time machine from the past or use the Burt Wonderstone trick of gassing everyone at a Mondavi Center event, transporting them to the ARC before they wake up in a "disappearing audience" gag ? There needs to be a massive shake-up in the way people prioritize their leisure activities before UCD basketball becomes that relevant again. And football attendance is irrelevant. Brutes hitting each other while some guy tries to run away has great universal appeal. This has been true for thousands of years.

If you don't like how the team is playing, and it causes you so much frustration that you're calling for a coach to be replaced, then you have the option to not follow it instead of letting it get to you. Outside of the team and coaches very few people actually have to live and die with the fortunes of a college sports team (and I don't count gamblers), I don't feel like you've made a compelling enough argument for Les to be replaced before his contract is up, wasting money and trying to solve a problem that isn't there.

This is exactly the response I would expect in defense of the current coaches. "Its not their fault"...please. Yes, it is. It's been over 10 years. It is past time to get some new blood in the mens basketball program. There is nothing being done today that displays an earning of more years of mediocrity. The student body is not vested in the program. We are moving up in competition. It's time to get some some new blood. Our university deserves winning not a participation trophy. Look I get it, change is tough, but sitting back and being comfortable should not be an option for such a great school.

If the student body isn't vested in the program now, does that merit a larger investment ? If the students don't come out, lack of interest is a big factor. If they aren't interested do you think the lack of winning is driving that, or could it be that they just don't care because they have bigger priorities ? You can try to make the games more appealing.. In the end though, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

These sports teams belong to the students first and foremost because they pay the student fees. If they aren't interested in supporting their teams because they'd rather blow bubbles/confetti, or share every aspect of their lives on social media, maybe it's time to re-evaluate the entire sports program and its cost to them. If they really are this indifferent no basketball team is going to change that. I'm not in favor of throwing more of someone else's money at a coaching experiment that may not deliver results. And how important is the basketball team's level of success anyway ? Worth losing sleep over ?

We look at these things through the perspective of alumni. It's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking the school owes us highly-competitive teams for life. The sports teams don't exist solely to provide entertainment for hard-to-please alumni. They do not owe us a championship basketball team. If they could find ways to sufficiently attract potential students and community participation/investment without a sports program I'd be ok with that.

Look, I enjoyed the sports as a student, but I also recognize that younger people don't share my interests, and the UCD athletics experiences I enjoyed as a student are never coming back. Fun memories-that's it. New memories can be formed but they will not be the same. Times change and so do priorities. Perhaps the athletics dept isn't tuned in enough to what the students want. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. It doesn't need to be "go-all-in" or get rid of the program. They've found a happy medium, and that's fine. Davis can be Davis, and Sac State can be Sac State.

don’t be afraid of change.

I'm not. I embraced change when I altered my perspective on how important it is for UCD sports teams to win everything, especially when I attend. This wasn't yesterday.

I determined that when I visited Davis for a game the only part I consistently enjoyed was the pre-game meal (often Steve's Pizza or the Hotdogger, occasionally Tres Hermanas) because my overall enjoyment of the trip was mostly based on the
outcome of the game, influenced in part by the costs of attendance. I felt there was something wrong with that so I decided I could either find a way to enjoy them no matter what or just stop going. Not worth getting upset and having a bad time.

The time away has allowed me time to reflect on what matters and how hard the coaches and players (and some of the administrators) work to put together and execute these events. I also thought about how the price of a ticket doesn't entitle me to call for a coach to be terminated over them not winning. That's change.

None of that has anything to do with winning. That is the problem. I remember when we had the Grad, we had Murder Burger, we had a more lively downtown. All that is coming back. Winning basketball means not rewarding coaches who are below average.

I care about winning. I care about academic rankings. I care about being elite. UC Davis is one of the best universities in the nation. We should act like it.

Athletics never made our university “elite” or for that matter any other one. It’s totally supplementary. If by your metric Sac State is now “elite” then you should reassess your methodology.

This goes for any school in the UC system. No matter how anyone feels, athletics is never going to be a #1 priority in the UC system.

This doesn't make me any less of a fan, and it doesn't make me want the Athletics Department to work less hard to improve. There must be a winning standard in place.

In this context, I'm not sure replacing Jim Les immediately is the highest probability move for increased wins and program improvement.

I would love to see us add a ‘ GM’ to help with recruiting/transfers. I think Les outcoaches just about anyone in the BWC, and when we have talent and depth, we’re at the top of the conference. Remember, we were 3-4 away from a NCAA berth in 2024 with 2 really good players, and a solid supporting cast.

The whole point of athletics especially at the D1 level is to win. If we win we get more exposure to the university itself. Look at Gonzaga, Duke, etc. I'm surprised anyone would be ok with being below average in anything. Look, if you didn't want to compete at the D1 level, we should have stayed D2, but we are not D2, we are D1. We have to start winning so the athletic program can start generating money to pay for travel and other operating expenses in the future. This is the business of D1 sports.

Coach Les I'm sure is a great human being, but what has he won? Nothing. The team is not getting better it is getting worse. The student body is not interested enough to invest their time and money into watching this team. Fine keep him and this staff on for another year. Keep him for the next decade, guess what? UCD is going to win anything and apathy will continue to fester.

I give it a year, because I think SACST is going to have a really good year in football and basketball. And once those seats start selling out because people enjoy winning programs, you will see UCD have to make a move just to stay relevant.

It it ok to have high expectations of our coaches. It is ok to say "The results for the past 10 years were fine, but we expect better." If next year Coach Les somehow puts together a winning team that wins the conference ok...he bought some time. But if he finishes with another losing record or lower than 3rd in conference you have to replace him.

Great idea!

Unneeded and costly. Hire a top assistant who can recruit.

Height (length) is an important metric in basketball. Ham once developed a raw thin former soccer player who never played a year of HS hoops. The player was 6'10" and had modest success.



He has had one system for three decades. He has shown an inability to incorporate most big men into his system. My compadres say the MW will expose this flaw even more.

Steinburg coached here and I'm told he was a fabulous recruiter. We've had other coaches who were top recruiters.

[Football gets recruits, good recruits, and they win. However, they also play against basically minor league college football teams. Basketball doesn't play in a minor league classification-...]

Football plays in a tough FCS division which sends guys to The Show every year. Hoops plays a mid major schedule.

It stands, football and women's basketball recruit well, and have minimal player turnover.

Rocko has a marketing team that dropped the ball in our football playoff run. Three or four professionals couldn't give away 1,000 free playoff tickets. They should have given away 4,000.

I'm not calling for his head, but he's obviously not a guru with a roughly. 500 career record. Something needs to change.

seems like a similar cost ( unless you’re advocating replacing a current assistant) and they can concentrate on everything off the court.

Sac's football roster includes a GM and and Assistant GM. I've never seen so many coaches and support staff on a roster. They list 30 under the heading of Coaching Staff and 9 more under Football Support Staff.

Basketball is showing 6 Coaches and 6 Support Staff.

https://hornetsports.com/sports/football/roster

https://hornetsports.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster

Sac is breaking the mold, should cause Title IX problems.

Totally agree with this. He has won with talent & depth. Give him the resources he needs (and that other programs have).

Coach Mike Bibby on mission and plan

Watch this video. There is an excitement to the program. He is getting calls from NBA players about coaching their sons. He is looking to build something. If has been sent over 200 recruit videos in his first year....look out.

The one key thing I have not seen is a local reporter asking UCD coach Les his opinion on SACST which is wild. We are going to be forced to change, because the status quo is not going to work anymore.

This is a HIGH SCHOOL coach. He is a vanity hire. Can he lead and build a D1 program? Getting a few NBA players sons and transfers to come to your school is one thing......coaching a D1 basketball team and building a program is another.

Don't hold your breath if you are waiting for Davis to enact short-sighted publicity stunts like this....Davis moves deliberately with a long-term view.

Its important to note: athletics programs that operate like Sac don't give a crap about academics. So, maybe think about the brand you want to slap on your alma mater.

A well known Bay Area QB’s kid played football at my son’s high school. When we did not start, he transferred to another high school. Apples do not always land at the base of the tree.
If I am correct, Shaq’s kid average less that 7 ppg more than I did last year.

instead of being defensive ask yourself why is there no excitement at UV Davis men’s basketball?

what does that have to do with UC Davis putting out a winning basketball program? Why are we defending mediocre?