I mean, they suspended the entire program, coaches included. They're not going to do that if like three or four seniors decided to haze a couple freshmen one time.

You don't have to like the Bee, but this clearly isn't making something out of nothing.

The something out of nothing I was referring to was the fact that the Bee had no relevant information to report so they went and got the opinions of some uninvolved individuals and tried to draw some sort of connection to unrelated events over the last 10 years. Should have been on the opinion page since it was mostly clickbait conjecture rather than journalism.

As to whether the allegations are indeed systemic, serious, and credible we may never know. We are likely to only get a one-sided telling when it eventually comes out. If in fact there was dangerous behavior going on, let me be clear that I do not condone it. But I have become distrustful of the university’s ability to run factual investigations because the education compliance industry is so incentivized to overreact and convict under their doctrine of “guilty until proven innocent and even then still guilty for good measure.” Indeed I have seen the university suspend people and programs over allegations that were minor and factually dubious.

Mike Bush@MBDavisSports
Replying to @MBDavisSports

"There has been an update on the online story.
The story will be on A1 in Sunday's issue."

I think that May was correct to make the statement that he did. Although hazing is not good, it could well prove to be something rather minor in nature which is what I now expect because of this early statement. This could/should help clear up the wild speculation that the “misconduct” was egregiously bad. I am old enough to recall that freshman Aggies had to wear a frosh “beanie” their first year at UC Davis. That was indeed a form of hazing and totally condoned by the administration. Navy Seals go thru an indoctrination ceremony that is total hazing ditto some elite Marine and Airborne outfits. New Navy guys are routinely hazed when they cross the equator this first time. Military condones it as a “bonding thing”. Really depends on what it actually was: did the newbie guys have to wear their hats backward during warmups? Clean up the dugout? Could be any stupid little thing.

The hazing allegations would have to be serious enough to warrant the suspension of the entire team.

One thing to keep in mind is that some things we would not consider a big deal may be offensive to a current player. I'm sure one of our former student-athletes on this message board, like DrMike, could tell stories (but not on here please-don't want to retroactively vacate any titles) about the things their team got away with. The university has to investigate based on the perceptions of the people making the complaints whether we think it's a big deal or not.

I have seen at games a couple of things that might be considered playful hazing,depending on the actual facts behind them. For example you almost always see a freshman (usually one who is redshirting) doing the menial annoying tasks when it comes to preparing the field, fetching bats and bringing baseballs to the umpire. Then again, that could just be the coaches saying, "Go make yourself useful. No slacking allowed".

I also think the older players to some degree have been picking the walk-up music (the song clip played when a player comes to bat or begins their pitching warm-up on the mound) for the freshmen so as to amuse the audience and humiliate them a little bit. A few years ago I remember someone coming to bat to the tune of "What's That Smell ?" and another walking up to "Mama Mia !". Again maybe the players chose the songs themselves to be funny. Who knows ? Perhaps no hazing there, just my perception. The idea of the walk-up music is to pick something that really gets your adrenaline going. Apparently "Baby Shark" does that for major leaguer Gerardo Parra. But the downbeat rap music choices now-it's like, "Does this seriously psyche you up ?"

The complaint is definitely based on something fans don't see.

The university has to investigate based on the perceptions of the people making the complaints — Goags20172

So true. And keep in mind that the person making the complaint could be a 3rd party. Say for example a freshman happened to mention to his residence hall advisor that the freshmen had to go load the equipment truck - theoretically maybe none of the freshman participants were offended by this tradition, but the RA is a "mandatory reporter" and feels it meets the criteria of something he has to run up the flagpole. Hazing and harassment are such serious topics, I am not sure the response is terribly different between minor and major transgressions. Sort of like stores that prosecute shoplifting a stick of gum the same as stealing 10 TVs.

So far the police have said they aren't involved and the only leak has been a relative of a player saying nobody knows what's going on. If we don't get a leak soon, it might actually be true that few know what's up. Usually when something is widespread and long-lived, there will be a disgruntled former affiliate willing to spill.

Didn’t someone say that there would be some further information out Sunday? I saw nothing.

I think this is a great look for UCD -- not that it happened but the University is taking steps to stop whatever is going on and be willing to take bad PR. I'm proud that UCD is behaving the way other programs should behave.

"There has been an update on the online story.
The story will be on A1 in Sunday's issue."

Page A1 of Sunday's Bee was a full color photo of a shrinking Folsom Lake leading to an article about the city of Folsom's continued growth while it faces a diminishing water supply. There was an article about the baseball team on page B1, the first page of the Sports section, but while it tweaked the initial Bee story, it added nothing to what everyone already knew - that the suspensions were the result of hazing.

I discontinued the Bee's print edition some time ago. 99% of what is in the print edition, which isn't much, was on the Bee's website anywhere from one day to several days before the Bee's circulation contractor threw the physical paper into the neighbor's sprinkler system.

For those looking for a cheery baseball story, Netflix has a fun movie about a renegade Independent pro baseball team in Portland in the 70s... the Mavericks, run by Hollywood actor Bing Russell (Gunsmoke actor, father of Curt) and a true student of baseball. Fun, authentic, open tryouts, MLB intrigue.

https://youtu.be/Pte1PwUsgpc

They brought the Portland Mavericks back this year, as part of the new Maverick independent league. The 4 teams (also the Senators, Volcanoes, and Campesinos) in the league play all their games at the home of the Salem-Keizer Volcanoes (Keizer, OR) a former Giants affiliate.

The more I think about it the less it seems like the hazing will resemble what happened with the band.

Probably the biggest difference is that the Band-uh was co-ed, which indirectly led to opportunities for sexual misconduct between some of the participants. Knowing that the band members had to spend so much time together preparing some of them didn't have a lot of time for social lives, and it was inevitable some would hook up with each other. However, instead of just quiet rendezvous (sp ?) behind closed doors others allegedly chose to relieve their sexual frustrations through different ways (like the raunchy songs, hot tub parties, etc) that affected others who wanted nothing to do with it. Randy bandies. Not that members of the baseball team couldn't have hooked up with each other (and that would be perfectly ok as long as all parties consented), it's just less likely the misconduct for baseball took the same form.

I agree with you that it well could have been a third party who observed something out of context and reported it. Younger baseball players tend to emulate the behavior of major leaguers, so they absorb a lot of their behaviors, including hazing. One very publicized MLB practice is making rookies dress up as women for road trips. And it is very possible an RA could have seen a resident wearing a dress and asked him about it, in the way of educating themselves about what pronouns to use. If they learned that the resident was wearing women's clothes as part of a prank, one that could be seen as mockery of transgender people, the RA (especially if they're not familiar with baseball traditions) could have reported it.

The plot points will likely be different, but the fundamental basis of the band controversy was a student went into full revenge mode after failing to win election to a leadership role. Really none of the allegations involved the band per se, they mostly centered on people's private activities off band time (which is a grey area as to how much jurisdiction the university should or does have). Those themes don't necessarily seem out of reach here.

Prior to making the news, the student and alumni band groups were constructively involved with the administration and were actually close to resolution on everything. The problem of course was that the people who went public weren't actually victims, they were revenge activists who rejected the premise of a measured and collaborative investigation and demanded scorched earth. The university initially hesitated so the activists launched an expanded PR assault implicating that the university wasn't taking things seriously, which left the administration swinging from the back leg. If the university learned anything, it was that activists will rake you for seeking fact before action and that taking robust action before actually obtaining facts might help keep a lid on the screamers, leaving political space for walkback of a possible overreaction at a later date.

Interesting refresher. I recall one young lady came off like a rabid SJW. If I recall, some members were a bit naughty (jacuzzi time), others were in the corner studying.

I read some posts on Fa--book at the time, possibly from the former band Director (?), now at Davis HS (?), which seemed to imply he played a behind the scenes, Activist role.

The young lady in question rented a cabin with friends over a school break (some of whom were in band, others not), proceeded to get drunk and hop in a hot tub naked, and allegedly hands wandered. Didn't say anything for a year, then runs for section leader and isn't elected. Confides in a professional activist at a campus resource center who helps her try to frame the hot tub as an official band thing. The staff director you are thinking of wasn't involved in the most recent controversy, but he had his own 10 years previous. He was filing a hostile workplace suit against his female boss (she was a jerk) and wasn't getting anywhere. For traction, his lawyer fabricated the naked van story. At the time, the university acknowledged they knew it was false. In both cases, people not getting their way made fraudulent or exaggerated hazing/harassment claims for personal gain and mostly got away with it because you can't tell a "trauma survivor" that they are lying. Now, I'm not saying the hazing claims against baseball are false. I'm simply saying if it remains that nobody knows what the claim is about, it may well be that there's not much meat to it other than someone pissed about something else decided to lob a revenge grenade. I know the powers that be want us to believe all accusations by default because they claim nobody would ever lie, but I've seen it botched one too many times that I personally stick with innocent until proven guilty by credible facts.

Bee is really trying to gin this thing up with a big editorial this AM. Allegedly, some players parents are in an uproar because they don’t know anything. This can’t be a Chima treatment thing. Best if May clears the air ASAP. I agree with Fug that there may not be much meat on this thing aside from a pissed off player or two, but you never know.

Here it is.

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article252900498.html

Bob Dunning at The Davis Enterprise weighs in. Argues that Aggie players have limited options as DI scholarships are taken, and they are in limbo w allegations. Estimated timeline at least to 4 months.

Bob Dunning: Justice for UCD baseball program should be swift
BY
BOB DUNNING
JULY 20, 2021

"...And every minute that this goes unresolved, the rumors continue to swirl, growing darker by the day. You’re presumed guilty, even if you’re not.

"For sure, no one wants a rush to judgment, and UC Davis officials are right to insist on a thorough investigation given the seriousness of the charges, but an innocent player must feel like marching into the athletic director’s office or the chancellor’s office to demand that the investigation must have a much shorter timeline.

"Put simply, those who are without fault, be they players or coaches, should be cleared and cleared quickly...."

I think Dunning has the right take (as per usual). How exactly is one supposed to make the Bee happy? They want both a hardline approach on hazing/harassment and also to never have a case crop up? Those seem contradictory. The reality is that no collection of 30,000 humans is going to have perfect behavior. Schools that appear to have no cases aren't somehow perfect at prevention, they simply don't address them.

It's curious that the Bee tries to question why the baseball parent wanted anonymity and who they are afraid of at UCD as if there was some curtain of fear and silence. I doubt the parent is so much afraid of administrators as much as they are of activists and reporters who will accuse anyone who is not supportive of accusations as a "victim blamer" or worse and can lead to doxing.

…. and this is one of the many reasons the bee doesn’t get a nickel from me.

This is no longer a local story. Every college baseball coach and every athletic director in America knows that UC Davis suspended its baseball program. It’s been in every newspaper in the country.

And thus, like it or not, every UC Davis baseball player has a dark cloud over his head, a cloud that won’t go away until and unless the investigation turns up nothing. But even then, the cloud is likely to linger.

Read more here:https://www.davisenterprise.com/news/local/bob-dunning-justice-for-ucd-baseball-program-should-be-swift/?utm_source=DE&utm_campaign=8dcfe8ef2f-Daily_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_be64fee185-8dcfe8ef2f-171004309

I'd like to share another one of my crazy ideas, partially based on fugawe's post.

Suppose the baseball team is sort of a fraternit and has its own initiation rituals for the new "pledges" and the "pledgemasters" are seniors who are taking their turn at passing on some torture they had to experience themselves.

Now one or more freshman players fail miserably at their pledge tasks, and end up injured, humiliated, or both. But they don't rat out their pledgemasters because snitches get stitches.

Now the season progresses and the pledges endure a miserable year of losing. Despite the constant losing Vaughn continues playing the upperclassmen.

At the end of the year one or more decide they're fed up with their lack of playing time in light of the poor season and the hazing they've endured and decide to lob the revenge grenade. They wait until the seniors who humiliated them have graduated and started the next chapter of their lives so as to minimize the chances of retaliation. They anonymously notify the university about non-specific hazing so that they can pretend they don't know anything about it, just like the rest of the team. Their aim-get back at the team for a bad year.

Now the university doesn't quite know what to do just yet with the vague accusations, so they declare there will be a long period of investigation while they look into it. They suspend the coaches and remaining players to try to avoid any financial commitments to games or scholarships they would have to walk back if a harsh penalty needed to be imposed on the team.

And they leave the details vague so several people on a message board can discuss it.

If they announce a "culture review" or "independent investigation," it will be a strong indication that they have a weak case or the responsible parties are no longer affiliated with the university. If they retain the services of Van Dermyden Makus law firm, we will know that somebody is about to get scapegoated. The principals at that law firm are former UCD campus counsels and are still personal buddies with old timers in Mrak. They have tended to bring them in when an internal investigation is unfavorable and they want a glossy report to deflect responsibility away from administrators who maybe knew or should have known something.

Maybe the baseball team is the scapegoat ? This can't be the first time someone has claimed to have knowledge of hazing involving any of UCD's sports and yet they act like they are shocked. However, maybe they've been looking for a reason to get rid of an underperforming team that's not very popular and field hockey is a women's sport so....

And what really annoys me is that the other UCD programs, and those of all other universities,are going to sit back and act shocked, when you know they all have some sort of hazing rituals. Maybe they hold team education sessions to pay lip service. They just didn't get blamed this time. I don't believe for a minute that the women's teams are all innocent. They may well project an image of inclusion and sisterhood, but none of us can know exactly what truly demented garbage they might pull privately. They're not above it just because they're women. They're just better at covering it up. I had two cats, one of each. The male tended not to cover up his litter box deposits while the female covered hers up well. Guess who stunk up the house while no humans were home ?

As the Bee continues to keep ginning this story up (see todays video on front page) and keeping it front and center, news arrives that the case against the so-called “Chinese Communist Scientist at UC Davis” has been dismissed in Federal Court today. Recall how the Bee tried and convicted this woman in its paper when the news broke about her arrest (for lying on a visa application). An arrest that was largely the result of the prior administration’s effort to arrest as many Chinese scientists in the US as a part of a very ineffectual anti-Chinese foreign policy. The only evidence? A photo of her in a military uniform. The Bee story still shows her photo in a military uniform, which Chinese scientists are required to wear at times in Chinese Military hospitals even when they are not in the military. The US Attorney prosecutors have now dismissed the case specifically on those grounds. The Bee’s journalism is so pathetic, but with no competition why should they care?

You seem to be dismissive towards the well documented and extensive spying by China in America. Not to mention Christine Fang, aka Fang Fang, enmeshed herself in Northern California politics, including allegedly 'dating' Congressman Eric Swalwell. Senator Dianne Feinstein having a Chinese spy as her driver for 20 years. Or Feinstein and Mitch McConnell (R) having extensive business investments in China, long before Hunter Biden.

Our prior Administration confronted China's dumping of steel, and hallowing out of our manufacturing base. Something US President's ignored for decades. Author and Chinese expert Michael Pillsbury - author of The Hundred Year Marathon - states that President Trump was our toughest and shrewdest president in relation to China since President Eisenhower. His trade team was outstanding, and cemented a vastly improved USMCA (closes China's backdoor, tariff-free entry into the US). USMCA also bolsters Mexico.

China's economy was hammered by his moves and tariffs, their economy tanked and they devalued the yuan, while our economy grew by $2 Trillion (pre Covid). 3.5% unemployment, tens of Billions in tariffs flowed in, and a Silicon manufacturing explosion in Arizona. Manufacturing here started a rebound, along with steel and aluminum. All improvements Wall Street didn't want.

A great Facebook post from Bob Dunning's recent column, re baseball column.

Lawrence J Booher, former counsel for Texaco and trial attorney for Caltrans. (Dunning asserts he is a great attorney.)

"Before retirement, I was a labor lawyer for a large company. From time to time we conducted internal investigations of serious matters - employee theft, discrimination or harassment based on gender (most cases), new hires (at the union level), other factors (rarely race or ethnicity - we had a vary diverse and well integrated workforce where promotions were based on performance), promotions, substance abuse, incompetence (usually a result of substance abuse).I cannot recall any case that took more than two weeks to resolve - including my review which often lead to additional interviews or documentation. (Note - in cases of potential termination for incompetence, the process was much more lengthy with job reviews, plans for improvement, more job reviews, etc.)In most cases, the majority of the work was done in less than a week. One or two people(two is better) conduct interviews of the complainants, those complained against, and possible witnesses. Relevant documentation is copied. My review. Presentation of the findings to management including recommended action. It is not a time consuming process, even if there are several claimed victims, accused, and witnesses. Most HR professionals have carried out investigations many times and know how to do it. On reflection, I cannot conceive what could delay completion of an investigation for four months. Suggestion - make an inquiry in a few weeks and ask how many interviews have already been conducted. If the answer is several, ask what more interviews are needed and what is the delay? If the answer is few, suggest more experienced investigators should be brought in. Good column."

I must apologize to the people on this thread that I gave Movie the opportunity to regale all the great things that Trump did for this country. All false, of course. Are we any better now than before Trump? No. Trump tried to use tariffs against the Chinese. Are tariffs good? No. Tried to buy lumber lately? Don’t. Prices have skyrocketed. Cause: Tariffs. Can’t buy a new car? No chips. Cause: Tariffs.
The point I was trying to make is that the Bee’s phony journalism starts out with a storyline that is falsely reported (‘Chinese Communist scientist at UC Davis”). When the falsehood is found out, the Bee just pivots, never retracts its libelous story. Now uses the dismissal to regurgitate the initial charges. This because the Bee has so little to write about except: Covid, Drought, Wildfires, and Sac crime. My point: expect the same with the MBB situation. But I do agree with Movie that the investigation has to proceed much quicker.

We can agree one item. Progress. 69 conveniently ignores many positive achievements, including wages rising, wages rose more for low income workers, record low Black, Latino, Asian & female unemployment. China's economy was reeling. Facts CNN will bury.

Trade researcher Alan Tonelson asserts Team Biden is now supporting numerous Trump trade positions (Biden's town hall was a disaster.)

FWIW, retired attorney Booher is a Davis High School grad.

I still can’t get this Aggie MBB issue bug off my back. Can’t reach it. Can’t grab it. With all the great MLBB news coming out of the Bay with the Giants and the A’s doing well and I an now actually watching Giants games, it is just sad that we still have this issue to deal with. Hope that this does not go on for 4 months. No response needed or expected.

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