Will UCD cut any sports ?

Goags20172

This is really more of a general topic, but it's not really off- topic either due to COVID- 19.

Even Stanford has cut some programs, so it stands to reason UCD will as well.

So let's open the floor. Will UCD cut any sports, and if so- which ones ?

I believe that due to Title IX men's programs will be more susceptible.

Even though football is immensely expensive it should be completely safe, if for no other reason than the very significant financial commitment to its facilities. What would they do with UC Davis Health Stadium with no football team ?

I looked into it further, and no Big West Conference School actually sponsors all conference sports (UCD has all but Men's Volleyball and Bakersfield lacks six of them.) and only 4 have all of the women's sports. Ever see the UC Irvine softball team play ? They don't have one.

The point I'm trying to make that membership in all conference sports is not necessarily a requirement to remain in the Big West.

This is not good for baseball. Even though we've heard rumors in the past that it was required for membership I've come to doubt that. For one thing Idaho and Utah State didn't have baseball teams when they were members. Perhaps that was just a requirement for new members for scheduling purposes. UC Irvine did not have one either for a couple decades. The additions of UCSD and Bakersfield might change things as well. The Big West might be only too glad to field 10 teams instead of 11 and cut down on travel. It's quite a different story to send a dozen basketball players to nothern California.. If softball (a women's sport) is not an absolute requirement then baseball probably isn't either. COVID- 19 and the protests + riots have shown that historic landmarks and long- held traditions can be axed just like that, so changes like cutting long- time sports are certainly possible

Like football there's a big commitment to Dobbins Stadium, but it likely wouldn't sit empty if there weren't a UCD varsity team. There's a reason it used to be called Community Stadium- teams in the community came to play there. High School, adult amateur leagues, etc. The UCD Yolos (club team) would probably be a regular tenant. Even softball might use it as a practice field, with some modifications. It can also serve as a neutral venue to host a game when weather facility issues arise for other schools. It could even host a summer collegiate wood bat team, especially if they got lights. For reference they were going to put a team at old Renfree Field in Sacramento (which went to Lincoln instead and folded), and they hadn't even restored the field yet.

Men's Water Polo could also hypothetically be a casualty of a budget cut. It's not nearly as expensive as baseball, but it's a men's sport not in the Big West, so it could be susceptible.

Cutting either or both of these teams (about 60 student- athletes between them) could be balanced by cuts to non- Big West women's programs, such as gymnastics (about 20), lacrosse (about 25) field hockey (about 20), equestrian (about 30), or swimming and diving (about 40). I believe dollars spent also are a factor, not just student- athlete opportunities.

So I'm going to guess that if any sports are cut baseball, men's water polo, field hockey, and gymnastics would be on the chopping block. Gymnastics would be a convenient target given the recent allegations of racism. I suppose you could subsitute lacrosse for field hockey.

69aggie

Great post by Go on a topic that is unfortunate to contemplate. But I do think that creative minds can work this thing out. I agree that football for UCD is not going to be cut. Nor are MBB and WBB. Any of the rest of the sports are like Go says vulnerable. For one, I don't think that scholarships are that big a cost issue. These so-called minor or “Olympic Sports” have relatively few hard Other costs except for travel and thats where I think all the major California universities should get together and work out how these sports can just play in California and maybe Nevada (what is the matter with two games a year with Sac?) Gone will be the days where the lacrosse team goes on an extended east coast trip, or the WSB team goes to a Weekend tournament in Texas, or the equestrian team goes to Alabama. Yes, even the football team may just have to play close to home. A lot of money will be saved. I do agree that field hockey just is a bridge too far with two teams left in the entire west and may have to go. Baseball is on the bubble as Go very well says, i simply have no ideas or input on baseball. Alumni/parent support may decide the fate of these teams.

72Aggie

Equestrian is much like field hockey in that there is little if any competition in California. I think the only other California school with an equestrian team is Fresno State. After that it's Texas. If you drop field hockey and equestrian, you probably have to pick up something like rowing.

fugawe09

I wouldn't use the existence of a facility as any guarantee that a particular sport stays. UOP left a nice football stadium to rot. I do think though Gary May considers football and basketball "front door" sports so probably safe. Field Hockey has never really made geographic sense, although it does seem that there are high schools in Santa Clara and San Diego counties generating players. On the surface Equestrian would seem expensive but we learned previously that the host location provides the animals and looking at the last couple of years of schedule, they often play multiple opponents at one invitational so not really that many out of state trips involved. I also believe there is some "old money" from central valley ranching dynasties in play.

72Aggie

I looked at last year's equestrian schedule. They had a few dates where they travelled to Fresno and had more than one match. (A lot of sports do this, it is not unique to equestrian.) It gives the California teams a couple of matches and helps justify the travel for the team from the east or midwest. In that situation would Fresno provide horses for both the out-of-state team and for Davis?

69aggie

Very tough choices. This is where Kevin Blue’s job went from being a dream job to a nightmare. Bet he has had many phone conversations with the Stanford AD on this subject.

Fiat Lux

I don't think they would cut equestrian. They were only added as a sport in 2018 and it would reflect poorly on the university to cut a sport that quick. Field Hockey is the obvious choice to cut. One would have to think their travel costs are drastically higher than the majority of other sports seeing that they have to travel across the country to play. Cutting field hockey puts us back into tittle IV issues that we resolved with equestrian and beach volleyball. I think the most likely situations is dropping field hockey and picking up women's rowing. (Turn the club team into an NCAA team. They did something similar with equestrian.) Or cut field hockey and a poorly performing men's team. Unfortunately that looks like baseball. I don't think they cut water polo because we have been quite successful and the head coach is an endowed position. The first such position in Aggie athletics history.

Goags20172

↪fugawe09

I agree. I believe there is a pretty significant donor base behind equestrian. It's a new sport, but it will probably have more staying power than Boise State's baseball team, which was cancelled when it had just been reinstated after 30 years. I read an article from a Boise newspaper which said there were about a half dozen Bronco players sharing a house while playing in a summer league in Salt Lake City. They got the call a few weeks into their season, so they were all of a sudden representing a team that no longer existed. They said one of them is transferring to Cal Poly and another is probably going to a JC in California.

The upgrades to the football program are relatively new money though, so that buys football plenty of time.

Goags20172

↪Fiat Lux

I forgot about the endowment for water polo. Good point. There was a recent article in the Davis Enterprise in which they interviewed Kevin Blue, and he said he was committed to all of the existing sports. However, the almighty dollar has more to say about that than he does. He also has yet to see exactly how much he has to work with. Back when they cut 4 sports in 2010 they were dealing with a significantly smaller budget shortfall.

72Aggie

FIeld hockey is on life support if that. America East has postponed all fall sports. UC, UCD and Stanford (the defending champion) extended their associate membership agreement through 2020, but that means little with the postponement. Stanford is dropping the sport after the 2020 season, so it is effectively dead. Cal has struggled to keep its program, not even having a home field one season. I think Fiat Lux is correct that field hockey will be cut and probably replaced by rowing to keep women's sports in compliance with Title IX.

The Western Water Polo Ass'n has not announced plans for the forthcoming season. While the UCD men's water polo team has had success in the past few seasons, we have to admit that they are playing in a less competitive league. Most Big West schools play in the Golden Coast Conference and the Ags would probably be a middle of the conference team there with a tougher path to the NCAA tourney. Being endowed helps their chances of survival.

fugawe09

↪Goags20172

Maybe this conversation is moot and athletics has their finances in adequate shape. Hopefully. The endowed coach position probably protects water polo, but there's also a non-financial factor that may play -- certainly do not mean to insult anyone by presuming their identity, but if you look at the team roster photos, baseball appears significantly more diverse than water polo. Could be a political (and ethical) problem to cut sports with more athletes from underrepresented groups in favor of less inclusive sports.

72Aggie

↪fugawe09

As one of our members* points out, water polo (and tennis) seem to be overloaded with foreign born players. That presents further issues with the pandemic and the current administration's immigration policies.

(*Davisbear? 69Aggie? With my memory every day is an Easter egg hunt.)

movielover

If no ICA for a number of months, why not furlough a big chunk of the department? Lots of directors, asst directors, assoc directors.

fugawe09

↪72Aggie

Our rosters have a few international students, but I think the point @69aggie has made previously is that we are middle of the pack on some of those sports while the perennial winners sometimes do not have a single domestic athlete on the roster (*cough, Long Beach State). If Tennis proceeded this year, perhaps we would do quite well against Beach.

72Aggie

↪fugawe09

We certainly don't have as many as other schools. USC water polo, Sac State tennis...are a couple of examples.

Goags20172

↪fugawe09

it's funny you mention the diversity of the baseball team as compared to water polo. When I was at UCD diversity in certain sports was not really a thing. Seemed to me even basketball only had about 3- 4 non- white players each year. Someone in a class was complaining that the football team only had like half a dozen or so African- American players (and yes, they said discrimination was involved), but given the percentage of African- American students in the student body at the time (less than 10% I think) they were proportinately represented in numbers. Baseball had maybe 1 African- American, 2- 3 Hispanic, and one Asian- American player (UCD Baseball Hall of Famer Matt Kamigawachi)- over those 4 years. It may have been 100% white 1 or 2 of those years. Moving up to D- I has probably attracted a much more diverse group of student- athletes.

Goags20172

↪fugawe09

I read those FAQ'sabout football season tickets, and they mentioned they were doing whatever they could to reduce costs.

Baseball is either the most or second- most expensive sport at UCD. Though basketball travels more they have less than half as many players and a lot fewer games. Football has a lot more players and paid coaches but they play less than a quarter of the contests.

If baseball is staying I imagine there will be deep cuts. I think it would look like this

- a bare minimum of coaches, although I think currently only 2- 3 (counting Vaughn) are actually paid.

- fewer games

- smaller rosters

- less travel/hosting non- conference series

Even if it weren't a pandemic right now I'd still advocate a smaller schedule. Baseball plays more games than any other team. I'd get rid of the mid- week games. The attendance on a Tuesday afternoon is pathetic. The games seem more like exhibitions than real contests because of they're used mostly to audition 3- 4 little- used pitchers for 1- 2 innings apiece. No one wants to see that. You want to see a pitcher go the distance or come close, make it competitive. I noticed Ivy League teams mostly don't play in the middle of the week and I think that's a good practice for a very serious academic insitiution like UCD to take. More time to devote to coursework. Plus if you don't play as many games you don't spread the pitching staff as thin.

Now, the mid- week game does provide a bit more time to audition some little- used players but it's like I say you should be comfortable using any player in a game if they're on your roster. If they're not ready to go let them play at a junior college, knock out those GE couses, and come back when they are.

The maximum roster size is 35, but I noticed Sac State often comes in well under that. Even if a player walks on and gets no scholarship he still represents a fairly big cost all things considered. With fewer games they'd have fewer injuries and they'd need fewer players.

movielover

↪Goags20172

Baseless claims of racism so tiring. I believe the UCD African American representation has run around 2% for decades.

fugawe09

↪movielover

I wasn't suggesting UCD athletics is racist. The point I was trying to make about future recruits was that communities of any race or income level usually have access to a baseball diamond and some dads who can coach it. If you have the gift, you can become a great player even in less than ideal facilities, so potentially a greater diversity of people have a shot at the team. Seems to me that adds value to the team. Sports like water polo are more limited to high schools or communities that can afford to maintain aquatic facilities. Tends to skew wealthy and frequently white (and for some reason everyone gets the same haircut). Not trying to knock them, just the the reality of the matter.

If you look at UCD enrollment vs state of California, women and Asian students are over-represented while men, white, Black, and Hispanic students are under-represented to varying degrees. I don't have numbers for athletics against student population, but would guess Asian and possibly Hispanic are under-represented.

movielover

↪fugawe09

My reply wasn't aimed at you, brother (or sister). It was to this: "Someone in a class was complaining that the football team only had like half a dozen or so African- American players (and yes, they said discrimination was involved),..."

I was listening to some old Dr. Thomas Sowell interviews. He asks when does he ever see a business or occupation employees proportionally distributed by age or ethnicity. There are hundreds of reasons why people make choices.

BlueGoldAg

↪movielover

The following is an excellent and scholarly article that discusses many of the most difficult and often controversial questions that many people have about race and racial issues. I found it very enlightening and well worth the time to read:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/us/racism-questions-answers/?active=2

movielover

↪BlueGoldAg

Unfortunately, most people haven't spent significant time in African American communities, many don't have long term, intimate relationships in the AA community, and few have read any literature on the topic beyond liberal mainstream tripe. I have.

No expert. Yet I'm embarrassed for the elite young liberal Progressives at CNN for starting off your posted article with an inflammatory, decades old topic.

Here is a short CSPAN clip from Stanford professor and author of 13+ books, Dr. Thomas Sowell. No matter your leanings, he has knowledge, historical perspective, and international comparisons.

https://youtu.be/o_fOsAHMCFA

AggieFinn

Is this a money problem or a spending problem? Everybody needs to get real Spartan, real quick.

fugawe09

↪AggieFinn

As far as we actually know, it's just a hypothetical problem to which we have been batting around hypothetical outcomes. This is the only statement I have seen from Athletics:

"To mitigate the impact of COVID-19, we implemented aggressive cost-savings measures and minimized the impact on our student-athletes. We will continue working hard to generate donor support for all of our 25 varsity programs and position them for success when athletic events resume. If your financial situation allows, please consider making a gift today. Stay tuned for additional giving events coming this fall."

Gunrock47

I agree with the earlier comments that baseball and field hockey would unfortunately likely be the two sports to go first.

What’s interesting is that baseball has a ton of super seniors set to come back and make its roster even larger than usual since they get their extra spring back from this past season. And more bodies = more $ needed for the team.

Goags20172

↪Gunrock47

I read in a Davis Enterprise article that senior catcher Logan Denholm is not coming back to UCD in 2021. He'll be headed to Sac State for graduate school. I don't know if he's necessarily going to play baseball there- that wasn't exactly spelled out. Although Sac State would be lucky to have him he would likely not be their starting catcher. He would probably have a swiss army knife role like Zach Stone when he went to University of Arizona. The Hornets have a "veteran" starter- Dawsen Bacho- who is pretty entrenched. They can still use Denholm's bat though.

And of course junior Tanner Murray signed with the Tampa Bay Rays.

I don't think they're going to expand beyond 35 players for 2021. And in a normal year UCD uses all 35 spots. I've heard some rumblings (mind you just internet rumors with no credible sources) that spring baseball could be just be conference only. With CSU Bakersfield coming aboard they'll have more players than games to play (27 or less). What the potential returning seniors represent is more downward pressure on the roster. Players that likely would have redshirted may transfer to a junior college instead. Don't count out the walk- ons and freshmen though. I think it was just two years ago that fifth- year senior pitchers Alex Trautner, Joseph Torres, and Dylan Spezia seemed like shoo- ins to make the roster. None of them did. Trautner wound up on the club team and Torres became an Aggie assistant coach.

It seems to me that if they were going to cut the program for Spring 2021 they would've done so already, as Boise State did. So if there's a 2021 season they'll play. Beyond that all bets are off.

Interesting tidbit I remember my former neighbor (an athlete himself at LBSU) telling me that Long Beach State kept their football program on life support for quite awhile while it was in decline but they cut the program as soon as the coach died. Don't know if that's true.

If I were University of Hawaii I'd want to opt out of the baseball season if the potential's not there for a full compliment of spectaors in the stands. Huge waste of money for them otherwise. UCD should consider playing without fans in the stands for 2021. I'm sure the ticket and concession revenue doesn't come close to covering the costs of having fans attend.

DrMike

↪Goags20172

from Wikipedia, Long Beach lasted one year after George Allen died. Former Raider, Willie Brown, took over that last year. I think a combination of state budget cuts, title IX and lack of fans (after Allen) did them in

Gunrock47

↪Goags20172

Denholm was great hitter per last seasons stats. Losing him to sac would be big.

Goags20172

↪Gunrock47

According to the website Denholm is a managerial economics major, which I think is the same as (or similar to) Zach Stone. That's probably a program you can work a baseball season around, unless there's an internship component. If he were going for his teaching credential I would've said no way. A lot of UCD grads head there because Sac State offers a wider variety of credential options.

Well, Denholm had his time at UCD. It was time for him to pass the torch. I think Jackson O'Boy is really improving at the plate and Nathan Peng has some legitimate power if he gets the at bats and they don't make him a full- time pitcher.. Plus they have the new guy- Michael Campagna-who hit so well this year they put him at first base to take advantage. Pretty sure they recruited another HS catcher in their last class too. Plenty of depth at catcher. Now if they could only say that about the pitching...

72Aggie

The cruel side of cutting sports as Iowa cuts four of them. (Iowa "released" their football conditioning coach over allegations of racism. They buyout of this one coach would have funded the four sports that were cut.)

https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/25/iowa-cuts-sports-swimming-gymnastics-tennis

Tough to be a Hawkeye fan, though I somehow still am.

Goags20172

↪72Aggie

Really ? That's awful. I say that because the coach was dismissed due to racism; that should void the contract as it makes the university look bad. This is worlds different than Gould's buyout. All he did wrong was not get the results expected of him.

Will UCD cut any sports ?

Welcome to Aggie Sports Talk!

Categories

More Discussions