The return of the Pac-8

Add two more State schools and they can be called the State-8.

Long time observer of the conversation on Aggie Sports Talk but a first time poster. As someone who lives on the East Coast where nobody is aware of UC Davis but are constantly surprised by just how big the school is and how great it's academic reputation is I think this could be a huge moment for the Aggies to enter this conversation about making a move. When you look at the demographics of the schools entering this new Pac Conference - particularly Colorado State (and Oregon State and Washington State) UC Davis mirrors these institutions more than any of the schools in the Big Sky! It's time for Davis athletics to make a name for the school that is so strong academically.

JMU in Virginia is a great example of how elevating to FBS can wholly change the reputation and national presence of a school. From no name Shenandoah Valley FCS school to hosting events like College Gameday and arguably being the elite football program in the state in under 5 years.

I realize there are folks that wouldn't love this idea but these opportunities don't come around every day. And it is reasonable to believe that if the Pac can become competitive they could easily bring Stanford and Cal back into the fold.

Welcome to the forum! I think the biggest things holding the Aggies back right now is the stadium, getting butts in said stadium, and the current framework of the NIL.

Our stadium would need significant upgrades to make it in a new Pac12 and we struggle to fill it as it stands, even for important games. It takes a lot... A LOT... of outside money now to be competitive in FBS and I don't know if the Davis community can make that happen. Maybe if money was sourced from Sac.

It would be cool to see Davis in a big time FBS conference, but we have numerous big hurdles to jump before even being in that conversation.

I appreciate those concerns. But many smaller schools have taken the chance and made the jump. As someone who attended Davis in the 2010s nobody wanted to attend football games against schools they had never heard of, with academic programs far inferior to those of Davis. As a student our peers (other than those at say Cal Poly) were attending institutions with far better reputations at schools we could all name off the top of our head. (I doubt you could find a single student on the UC Davis campus that has a friend at SUU) I think there would be considerable excitement if Davis and it's students had the opportunity to compete with it's peers -- on and off the field.

Yes, it will take resources but the school has never laid out a plan which would garner the support to recruit those resources. Institutions with enrollment less than half of Davis have figured out how to do this. There is a growing market in Sacramento that is RIPE for competitive top tier football. Let's not let Sac State take this opportunity and leave Davis behind because they were willing to take the chance.

Leaders lead, they don't make excuses for why it can't be done. That is not a dig at the hurdles you have outlined but an aspirational statement meant for the leaders of UC Davis to further enhance the reputation of our school.

Title 9 is a killer, especially since (I believe) Mrak interprets it to match school demographics which is about 60% female. To add the 22 football scholarships for football you have to find 22 women’s scholarships and I think we may have run out of sports. Alternatively, you can cut mens programs to keep the same number. And, we are running out of men’s sports for that!

I don’t think schools who have made the recent jump has 26 or so sports.

Welcome!!! As someone whose "home teams" are WSU and UI, I will be sad to lose another chance to see my teams here (the first was after Cal left the Pac). My one concern is the Olympic sports going from CA/HI to a general western conference. But I am not as pro FCS if the Montana schools leave.

This is an interesting discussion. I do agree with Virginia Aggie that one of the reasons we struggle to put students in the seats is that most of them could care less about us playing teams like TAMC, Southern Utah and Utah Tech and even some of the Big Sky teams etc.

I recently saw a list of schools that play FCS Football and we have the largest student enrollment by far. We're right up there in enrollment size and academic prestige with our brother UC schools like Cal and UCLA but do not compete at the level of their athletics. I think that the only way we will ever have the students packing the football stadium and the basketball arena is if our level of competition goes up and we bring in schools that they recognize and feel that we should be competing with them.

The last thing I want to see happen is for Sac State to make the move before us. The greater Sacramento region is hungry for a big time, college athletics program and Sac has the advantage of being located right in the middle of a major population area. If they are ever able to build large, quality facilities for football and basketball and they move up and start playing against FBS football teams and major D1 basketball teams, we'll be stuck at the level we are at.

UC Davis has a huge presence in Sacramento with the ever growing, world class UC Medical Center in Sacramento and the ambitious, future development of Aggie Square will grow our importance and prestige in Sacramento region. Geographically, our location across the causeway makes it more difficult for us to entice UC Davis fans to make the drive to attend our games but playing against big name schools would definitely bring in more Aggie fans from the Sacramento area.

So Rocko just tweeted this out

https://x.com/RockoDeLuca_AD/status/1834333275399290973?t=1VaDYGRnqn61ITAVjxDGVg&s=19

Wow...now that's exciting!

Welcome Virginia Aggie. I am on the East Coast (NC) too. You have some compelling arguments, but I think there are some moderating factors. When I look at successful move ups I think of JMU and App State. Both had very successful FCS football programs at a level UCD has not (at least yet) achieved. They both had bigger stadiums and larger attendance and more “rabid” fan bases. Football in Northern California seems to be a third option in terms of a Saturday experience. When is the last time Cal got anywhere near filling their stadium - when I watch on TV is appears that 2/3 old the stadium empty. I am sure some things have changed at Davis, bit when I was a student (Moroski days) the main cheering section was the band-uh and most students were in the library and many did ent even know we fielded a team. When I watch on ESPN+ it seems most of the students are there more for the social aspect than cheering in the team (at least they are present I guess). In the Valley Fresno is probably the best example of fan loyalty attendance but there the demographic is completely different. Sometimes I think Davis students and community are to “erudite” to actively engage in college football - maybe a little “beneath” them?

Anyway some good things you bring up and in these days of the wild Wild West of college football who knows what’s going to happen outside of the fact that Davis will never be in the money Leslie of those that end up in a “superdivision”.

I remember seeing a quote years ago for the stadium build out, but thats about all i remember, lol. What would that build out cost? Would the NCAA sanction a partial build so it could be accomplished in stages? Aggiefin is a construction engineer, maybe he has an idea of costs. Rocko would be a rock star if he could make that happen.

so there IS a chance :cheer:

I dunno man......up until yesterday there has never been enough money OR interest behind the program. If we are being honest, we barely got up to D1, and it took decades longer than it should have for the above reasons.
Has any of that changed since yesterday?

And to put things in perspective......the Tweet from the AD looks like a rendering from about 2004 that was recently edited. The field markings are the same from the original upgrade renderings.

I would love to see it all of this actually happen though.

https://x.com/MattBrownEP/status/1834377705652916364

And then there is this, so who knows. FWIW Rocko has pinned that stadium picture on his twitter account now.

I think it is more likely that other Mountain West schools (Nevada, UNLV or Hawaii) would join the P-8/10/12 than any FCS school. It would seem that the loss of a significant number of Mountain West programs leaving would open the door for schools like Sac State or UCD to join the MWC.

Sac's facilities seem still DII. Are any really at a DI level? Both Sac and Davis are affected by Sacramento being a government town.

We're currently competing w our academic brothers. Many fans are lured into focusing on football.

Cal struggles to attract fans. The West Coast is blessed with hundreds of entertainment options. We're not Fargo or Fresno.

The NCAA requirement to average 15,000 in football attendance to move to FBS was recently removed. But the transition fee went from $5,000 to $5 Million.

The rendering appears to include new athletic offices. Our stadium was designed for expansion, adding a second deck on the student side could add 5-10,000 seats.

Many think the future will paint the Haves and the Have Nots, and TV money is key.

This potential move might violate some of our core founding principles.

https://sportsenthusiasts.net/2023/11/08/james-madison-and-fixing-the-fcs-to-fbs-transition-rules/

Thank you all for the warm welcome, it'll be fun to banter with you all about our beloved Aggies!

In the new world of college athletics football and TV money are king... not saying it should be that way, just a fact of American life. Just about every one of our academic peer institutions has chased that almighty dollar, and clearly the Pac-X has more to offer if the biggest schools in the MWC decided it was worth the jump. Here is the most interesting part, should Davis or Sac State come into the new Pac-X it would immediately be the largest TV market, yes, bigger than San Diego. That is incredibly enticing for TV dollars. Regardless of butts in seats, which I would argue are more likely when you're playing schools like SDSU and Fresno State, there is television revenue sharing which helps fund football and other programs.

Top 100 U.S. TV Markets here: https://www.stationindex.com/tv/tv-markets

I don't think Rocko pins that tweet if conversations are not at least being had to consider if this should happen. Something else to consider would be if UCD doesn't consider this, do other Big Sky schools make the jump to FBS and suddenly we are left in the shambles of a weaker conference.

There is no doubt that rocko tweeting that directly coincides with the pac 12 announcement. It’s time!

We might have to get them on the podcast to pick his brain soon.

please do!

we're always happy to have more active voices here. Also nice to know there are other east coast 2010's grads suffering 10 pm kick offs and I'm not the only one

so you’re telling me there’s a chance.

https://brobible.com/sports/article/uc-davis-pac-12-expansion-conference-football-stadium/

“In terms of on-field play, UC Davis is actually pretty good for a newer program. It only made the jump from Division II to Division I FCS in 2002. The Aggies have since rattled off upset wins over Stanford, San Jose State and Tulsa. They reached the FCS quarterfinals after winning the Big Sky Conference in 2018.

Finances will also help UC Davis’ case.

The university enrolls more than 40,000 students. Its endowment of $2.25 billion is larger than schools like Alabama, Colorado and Missouri. There is significant wealth in Davis, which could help its case.

Along those lines, athletic director Rocko DeLuca teased expansion plans for UC Davis Health Stadium shortly after the soon-to-be new Pac-12 was announced. The 17-year-old field underwent significant renovations in 2023 and was built with the hope of going even bigger in the future.

Perhaps DeLuca was hinting at the idea that the Aggies could expand its stadium for a new conference…“

It doesn’t hurt that the PAC 12 Commissioner is a former aggie AD and knows us very well. But the real issue will be the multi million dollar buy outs. If there are no work arounds for that the whole deal might be dead before it gets off the ground.

Who knew the Ron Gould hiring would be so successful this many years later

So, advertising team can't sell out a 10,743 person stadium on an average FCS opponent week, but should Oregon State come to town, magically 20,000 people will fill the seats? I'd love to see Aggie Football raise the stakes, but what's a realistic transition plan? Facilities take money, and time to build, having built a major project on campus -- it's like pulling teeth with those people. Whoever is engaging the students, they need an upgrade. Football isn't a priority with this student base, it's a side hobby if there's time on a Saturday afternoon - and a lot of modern kids would rather stay in their dorm and play on their phone or their IPad.

I love my alma mater very much, just as much as everyone else here.....but we have to be realistic.

This is standard UC Davis cart-before-the-horse stuff.

We draw 7-8k of the quietest fans in college football. We have the lightest and quietest student section of any large school in the country. With the underclassman population on campus alone, the entire east side of the stadium should be 100% full with the band-uh every game (when school is in).
The Athletic Department cant get apparel (free advertising) to fans/students. The Davis community isn't passionate about football.

Like I said earlier.....We were 30 years slow getting the stadium upgraded (including the Edwards Center which should have gone up with the new stadium 17 years ago) and moving to D1. I'm not seeing what has changed in all of this over the past couple of years to catapult us up a rung.

We honestly aren't alone on this....Cal has fought uphill for decades as well (on a different $ scale). Its tough in the UC system to advance one athletic program over the others.

It’s either die with FCS or move up. Transfer Portal, NIL, and scholarship increase in FBS will kill FCS football. Either take a risky jump (and get $5-7M a year at least in media rights with PAC-12) or essentially operate as a D-2 program.